Thompson Park Phase II Improvements: Full Programming Review for Pricing

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:42PM on page 61

Maybe some combination of a wall and berm might work best. But placement of each type would have to be carefully designed to fit the surrounding area, topography, etc.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:41PM on page 61

Please explain what "moderate increase in noise at longer distances (over 1000 feet from noise wall)" means?

To mitigate for "prevents wildlife access", if a landbridge or underpass is built, then you want to funnel animals to the openings of the bridge/underpass, so could you actually utilize this to do that? Or would you need to build a small chain link fence with J-hooks built in?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:35PM on page 61

I agree with this assessment. There are pros and cons to using an earthen berm sound wall. It is probably prohibitive if we have to give up too much of the park for its construction. Then a wooden wall might be best.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:32PM on page 61

Trees don't really block sound that much, from what I recall from my Urban Forestry class.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:26PM on page 60

Also, if the data comes back that there are no collisions or very few collisions with deer on this stretch of highway, then there is not a good reason to make a overpass/landbridge for wildlife. There is some benefit to wildlife in the underpass, but it is fairly low, since deer will probably not use it. Therefore, making a crossing would be mostly for the connecting the two parks for visitors and as a visitor attraction, and not so much for wildlife.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 5:05PM on page 60

In general, none of this is going to hurt wildlife, but is it worth all of the money and effort involved in constructing or maintaining a land bridge? We feel that the primary reason that most land bridges are made is to reduce collisions with deer, therefore the underpass does meet that goal, so either of the two North or Central options would meet that goal. However, the underpass would potentially provide a crossing for some of the smaller animals that might not use the overpasses as much. Some of the smaller animals like mice actually nest in the tunnels, which is a benefit to wildlife.

We recognize the desire to serve both visitors and wildife. We feel, however, that you really can't achieve both goals in one crossing. Therefore, our recommendation for wildlife crossing is this: 1) the North crossing, 2) the South Crossing underpass, and lastly 3) the Central crossing.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:51PM on page 59

This is a good option for deer and small mammal crossing, but the east side of the bridge is next to a very busy part of the park with people, so that might make animals shy away from using it. And the sledding hill is only busy during the day, so animals could use it at night.
Although it connects potential habitat on both sides of the highway, there is not enough significant prairie or savanna habitat to sustain prairie or savanna wildlife species, including birds. So it would primarily provide more habitat for more common urban generalist species like raccoons, mice, voles, coyotes, possuums, skunks, and fox.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:40PM on page 59

This option will be better for deer, but during the day the trail will probably be busy enough to deter deer use, so they would probably only use it at night. It might also work for coyotes, raccoons, fox, and other small mammals, but probably more during the night. Squirrells won't use it because they're not active at night.
The opening on the east side is so close to a heavily used area
by people, it may decrease the likelihood that wildlife would use this part of the park.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:33PM on page 59

This option might work best for racoons, coyotes, possums, foxes, and other small mammals, but not very well for turtles, frogs, amphibians, and large mammals such as deer. It would also be used by animals more at night than during the day.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:30PM on page 58

Fencing to direct wildlife to the openings of the overpass or underpass may detract from aesthetic visual quality for visitors, but without such fencing, it doesn't really work as a wildlife passage.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:28PM on page 58

Note that a wildlife tunnel or underpass, or overpass, works best in conjunction with fencing that directs animals to the openings of the underpass or overpass.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 4:18PM on page 48

Make sure we're being mindful of the new ash trees planted in this area too

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 4:16PM on page 58

Are there data showing mortality records of species and numbers of animals that have been killed when trying to cross 52? It would be good to see this to justify building a wildlife crossing.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 3:52PM on page 59

One of the main reasons we have seen other places use land bridges is for deer, elk, or mule deer crossings, because they are the animals that cause most damage to vehicles and drivers on roads. But the South Crossing option is a tunnel, which deer will probably not use, or not want probably not want to use it. Therefore, if you want to reduce collsions between vehicles and deer, this tunnel option won't work. Either of the two other options that have overland connections will work much better for deer crossings.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 3:48PM on page 59

The South crossing will be used by wildlife more at night than during the day, because that's what we've seen in other tunnels. And since it is going to be a shared travel-way with humans, who will be using it in the daytime, animals will tend to shy away during the day. And we know that certain species will be more active at night and those will be the ones that use it the most. These species are racoons, possums, and coyotes--they would be the ones that use it most often. Deer will not want to use this tunnel.

Kurt Chatfield Dec 27 2023 at 12:59PM on page 56

If we have a community garden in this park then a partnership with West St. Paul Seniors would be aligned with the County Board's direction to seek out recreational partnerships while reducing the need to add more maintenance or visitor services staff. If the community garden was managed by a gardening club and the produce was donated to the "Neighbors" non-profit foodshelf, that could be a second partnership.

Kurt Chatfield Dec 27 2023 at 12:40PM on page 56

I would not recommend a community garden since it is inconsistent with the master plan. If we decide to include a community garden it would be better located next to Dakota Lodge as an ancillary use, where investments in water, parking, and trails have already been made. At this remote location a new parking lot and trail are needed and would only serve 8 individuals, resulting in too much impact per person. From a visual perspective, community gardens are often unsightly as they typically have raised beds, chicken wire fencing to keep animals away, plastic jugs that serve as mini greenhouses, strewn pots and piles of mulch and soil. They have stakes, silver ribbon to scare away birds, and black plastic to keep weeds down. In some cases, gardeners give up midseason and their gardens become weedy. Gardeners need lockers for tools, and wheelbarrows to haul soil, water, and fertilizer. They need waste containers for empty fertilizer, peat moss bags, and soil amendments bags and miscellaneous debris. Community gardens are great for neighborhood parks but are too impactful to this relatively small 57-acre County park that is intended to serve a travel shed of 100,000 residents, many visiting the park from miles away seeking a natural resource experience.

Kurt Chatfield Dec 27 2023 at 12:12PM on page 56

Suggestion

This parking lot and trail are too much infrastructure for a use that will serve too few people. The impacts to the park are too great for a non-general use/permitted facility.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:31AM on page 52

Access with vehicles is doable if you treat the trails as a loop from the north to the south exit/entrance from Sperl Street.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:29AM on page 51

Would like something similar to what is at the LH visitor center for boat launch - that way materials are consistent for repairs

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:27AM on page 52

Trailer for equipment is better than a boat house, in terms of impacts to natural resources, so I appreciate this option. And keeping it out of the shoreline zone, as shown, is a good idea.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:24AM on page 52

Much prefer this location for the paddle launch than where it was proposed before, to the north side of the lake. Some talk about attaching it closer to the shore happened, so that should be considered, but I like it attached to the dock since there would be fewer impacts to the shoreline vegetation and habitat.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:23AM on page 45

Risk - this would need to be fenced and locked when not staffed

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:21AM on page 48

And facility for the tower, too.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:20AM on page 48

If there is a tower and play area, people will create their own, shorter path between the two.

Concerns around play equipment near observation tower - if there's free-access to tower, kids will climb on it

If there's a destination play area (and tower), there needs to be a restroom facility - plan for an accessible portapottie surround near the greenway.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:20AM on page 48

Are there adequate facilities for kids that would be using this nature play area?

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:11AM on page 41

No development on this side

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:09AM on page 38

Since we would have only one bridge, and the trails are leading to the bridge, we would reduce the trails shown on this drawing by half, since we would only be having one bridge.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:06AM on page 38

NR - look at footing locations and select the location that has the least impact on high value trees. good oaks and basswoods out in this area - want to protect those

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:04AM on page 38

Is this bridge higher? If so, might be taller and more interesting

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 11:00AM on page 45

This is a large impact. Probably not desirable.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 11:00AM on page 45

Remove this option

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 10:58AM on page 38

What are the widths of these trails? If they are ADA compliant, what is the minimum widths allowed? Just trying to minimize their impact. Would you allow some non-ADA trails that would be more rustic in this area, since it has the best forest in the park?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 10:54AM on page 38

Looks like the trails are being aligned with the contours of the slopes. Would be good to take a closer look at this and get these trails aligned to minimize impacts to the site. Perhaps involve a consultant that specializes in trail building?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 10:52AM on page 38

We should probably take a closer look at the trees/vegetation that this would disturb. Would be nice to build in some flexibility to move teh bridge to avoid high value trees/vegetation.

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 10:35AM on page 27

Just keep in mind that the water flow probably won't be continuous. It will be more like pulses, following rain events.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:31AM on page 21

Can this shift a little to be more east/west oriented?

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:22AM on page 12

Possibility to add a N/S small island/walkway to break up the paving?

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:18AM on page 12

Make sure that there is a light pole here that also has a security camera

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:18AM on page 12

Confirm that these trees will be protected during construction

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:16AM on page 12

Is this due to B3? WSP clears the lot so we need to get them on board with the different paving type.

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:11AM on page 8

Does this full trail need to go back in? Or can we provide enough for ADA access and vehicle access on the east side

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 10:04AM on page 8

Potential for rain gardens included in the design here?
Potential for inclusion of permeable pavers in this area?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 9:56AM on page 8

What about stormwater capture? Are there going to be raingardens added to capture stormwater from the impervious surfaces being added to this area?

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 9:55AM on page 7

Dislike the large concrete patio look for the amphitheater. Like the more grassy look with the terraced seating - allows for more versatility.
What's the buffer between the amphitheater and the trail along the lake?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 9:54AM on page 8

The more impervious surfaces you make, the more they will require to be cleared during the winter, which means the potential for adding salt to melt ice. Salt this close to the freshwater lake is harmful to the lake. Just keep that in mind!

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 9:52AM on page 21

I like the natural surface. Any recommendations on how much maintenance they will require?

Joseph W Walton Dec 27 2023 at 9:50AM on page 21

All these existing trees--how are you going to protect them during construction of the new natural surface trail?

Christina Dec 27 2023 at 9:50AM on page 5

Additional space considerations - multi-use smaller room (prayer, wellness, etc), inclusion of a foot washing station (MPLS Park Board example)

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Thompson Park Phase II Improvements: Full Programming Review for Pricing

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